Trains 25 Operations

[Paul Charland]

Hi All,

I'm looking for information about the way freight that ran between Kentville and Windsor back in the mid-70's, Train 25.

The employees timetable lists the train leaving Kentville at 0900, arriving Hantsport at 0950 and having a meet with Train 1 nine minutes later at 0959. Train 25 is then listed as departing Hantsport at 1215, nearly two and a half hours later. The timetable really doesn't allow time to do any switching along the way to Hantsport... would it be reasonable to think that part of this time would have been spent switching between Kentville and Hantsport, even if that meant that the meet with Train 1 took place at maybe Wolfville and not Hantsport?

Thanks for any help.

Paul

[Viva]

Hi! My name is Brian and I worked on the Midland during the '70's.
To answer your concerns, the "morning yard" from Kentville started at 4:00 a.m., made up Train 50 for Halifax and 25 for Windsor/Truro, plus other duties. The "morning yard" would also proceed to New Minas and Port Williams and switch at those locations.
Then Train 25 would depart Kentville at approximately 10 a.m., go directly to Hantsport and switch Keyes Fibre. Train 25 then met Kentville-bound train from Truro/Windsor/Kentville at Shaw's Bog close to Falmouth. The train would then proceed to Windsor (Windsor was switched by the train coming from Truro). Train 25 would then pick up the combination car at Windsor and proceed to Truro, coming back the next day.
Hope this will help you a little bit. Keep writing and maybe other things will come to light.

Brian

[Paul Charland]

Hi Brian,

Thanks for the reply.

I lived in Greenwood from '71 to '77 and had little contact with the DAR other then seeing the Kentville Yard from a bus once a week when taking a course at was then the Kings County Regional Vocational School (now Kingstec) while attending West Kings, or the odd meet while coming back from Air Cadets in Middleton... I've had more "contact" with the railway since the invention of the internet!

I have a 1973 employees timetable that I've going by but your reply makes me just a bit more confused!

The return movement of 25 has never been listed in the timetable, so I though it was the same crew that originated in Kentville as Train 25, departing at 0900 according to that timetable, arriving Windsor at 1240, then swapping power with the crew from Truro and working their way back to Kentville. With your description of the Kentville Yard working New Minus and Port Williams this really makes me wonder why such a long wait in Hantsport for Train 25, their probably would be an hour's work there but that leaves nearly an hour and a half to sit around and catch up on sleep before being aloud to depart at 1215.

So, if the crew from the Mixed dropped their combine in Windsor and continued south to Kentville (?) how did they get home. Would they have stayed the night in Kentville and became the next mornings crew for 25 (who I would presume would have dropped their van and picked up the combine and headed for Truro at 1400).

Paul

[DARMIDLAND]

Hi,

I have a memo dated Sept.23,1969 from Master Mechanic W.V.Miller that diesel unit operating on trains 22 and 21 are to be changed off at Windsor on Tuesdays Thursdays and Saturday.Please ensure units have 300gals. of fuel in their tanks before leaving Truro on these days to bring them to Kentville.

cc.Mr.R.Buchanan TO A.A.Foley
Mr.A.Laing W.B.Hanrahan
Mr.E.Hunt

[Paul Charland]

Hi Andrew,

I remember this from a few years ago, guess that's the way to keep the Truro unit in as good a shape as they could as there were no facilities to repair a unit if it had a problem up there.

Still not sure about the two and a half hour layover in Hantsport. Would the crew of 25 been working the gypsum dumper emptying loads at the time, not sure when Fundy Gypsum's 45 tonner came along. From the consists you sent along there would have only been an empty 40 box or two for Keyes Fibre and maybe one more car to switch behind the station, nothing that would require two and a half hours to complete.

Paul

[stem]

This looks like the schedule you are talking about. Is it the same?

http://www.theboykos.com/raildocs/cp/ti ... 028/22.gif
http://www.theboykos.com/raildocs/cp/ti ... 028/28.gif

[Paul Charland]

Hi Steve,

Yes, these are the pages from the CP Atlantic Regional Employee Timetable 12 that I scanned and Steve Boyko posted on his site, the ETT was valid on 28 October 1973 until the next spring.

I'm a few weeks away from completing the Springfield Terminal in MSTS and am starting to look into the next project. The interesting part for me would be road switching, losing the three largest customers in New Minus and Port Williams to the Kentville yard job isn't helping any, not to mention the incomplete satellite shots between Kentville and Windsor!

Paul:-)

[Ric]

Paul,

Need some help on the track layout in NewMinas?

Ric

[stem]

The way I read it 25 & 50 are complimentary Kentville-Halifax and return trains while No. 24 is the one you are asking about are you not? That IS different to see a train (No. 24) without a complimentary run back and I see by the timetable that it is a curious amount of time to have to wait at Hantsport. So now I'm confused too because Brian referred to No. 25 as originating in Kentville when I think he meant No 24. Then Brian mentions a Kentville bound train coming from Truro yet this train is not on the 1973 schedule. The only scheduled train I remember finding running from Truro through to Kentville was the No. 33/No. 4. Could Brian be speaking of an extra that ran fairly regularly or will we find this train as a scheduled train later in the 70's? Then again Andrew has evidence that this was a Tuesday, Thursday and Saturday weekly run back to change out engines which would then suggest they made this into an extra to compliment No. 24.

The plot thickens.

By the way, the Halifax sub notes (http://www.theboykos.com/raildocs/cp/ti ... 028/23.gif) in the first 3 paragrpahs have some notes on No. 24 that I don't uynderstand. WOuld they perhaps explain the time delay?

I always wanted to know (excuse the dumb question) what the different class number meant. Why is No. 24 and No. 50 "4th class" but No. 25 is "2nd class"? Is this the priority of the train when determining right of way?

[Paul Charland]

Hi Ric,

Thanks for the offer but I still have the shots you took for me years ago when I was doing the 3PI layout. Over the last few years I've continued to collect what I could off the internet including the "SAMPLE" shots off e-bay that may come in handy.

Only a bit of the information I need is available, Google only covers Kentville to Wolfville, then East Hants to Halifax. Hasn't changed much in the last year or two but I was hoping if I started Kentville to Wolfville now maybe Google might add more before I got that far sort of thing. What I really need is access to a set of satellite shots to plot the route accurately to be able to create markers to follow in the games Route Editor, very easy if you're doing an American route, not so much when you're doing a Canadian route.

Paul

[Paul Charland]

Hi Steve,

The class question...

Railways give passenger trains first and second class and freights third and forth class to give trains "Superiority" over other trains.

On the DAR Eastward trains are superior to westward trains, therefore if an eastward passenger train meets a westward passenger train, the westward train would have to take the siding and wait for the eastward passenger train.

If any passenger train met a freight, the freight being inferior would have to take the siding and wait for the passenger to clear.

Freights work the same as the passenger meeting a passenger, the forth class westward train would have to take the siding and wait for the eastward freight to clear.

Now, after looking at the timetable and adding what Brian said about the westward train meeting the eastward train south of Windsor I'm seeing I've been misinterpreting this for years! 24 leaves Kentville at 0900, arrives in Windsor at 1240, drops their van and picks up the combine left by M22 and at 1400 heads to Truro as M21. At 0630 M22 departs Truro working it's way to Windsor where it arrives at 0900. M22 drops their combine and does all the local work at Windsor before picking up the van left by yesterdays train 24 and runs "Extra" working there way to Hantsport and then west to Kentville. Somewhere along the way they might meet train 24, probably depending on how much work they had in Windsor.

Here's the two things that puzzle me... If 24 has no work to perform between Kentville and Hantsport, why have him depart Kentville at 0900 and go to Hantsport and collect dust for two and a half hours before letting him head to Windsor, why not have hime depart 1030 after Train 1 arrives, head to Hantsport, do his work, then head to Windsor?

The second question relates to Andrew's note about changing the Truro unit off at Windsor every Tuesday, Thursday, and Saturday. Now, maybe they changed practices in the mid'70s and Andrew's note was for '69, that might be the reason that the Truro unit was departing Windsor for Kentville on a daily basis instead of waiting for 24 to arrive in Windsor for an exchange... does this sound right to anyone?

Paul

[Viva]

Hi all...Paul and Steve:

I've had a few days here to let the dust settle a bit, and I'm speaking from actual experience during 1969 to 1970 and 1971. Obviously things changed later on as service became dimished.

Anyway, the Midland was operated by two crews who, for the most part, lived in Kentville. Crew "A" left Kentville on Monday, Wednesday and Friday, switched Hantsport (yes, and stayed for lunch in Hantsport, approx. an hour downtime for lunch). The longest siding available was at Shaw's Bog and this is where we would meet the Kentville bound train from Truro. Crew "A" stayed in Truro overnight, left the next morning for Kentville; and then switched Windsor, etc.

Crew "B" left Kentville onTuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays, staying overnight in Truro, returning on Wednesdays, Fridays and Mondays (Saturday crew stayed overnight in Truro Saturday and Sunday nights).

None of these crews did any gypsum switching. The Gypsum company had their own locomotives and crew at Mantua, Dimocks and Hantsport.

P.S. The DAR operated Gypsum Extra's from Mantua to Hantsport and return, as business dictated. Often there were six trains daily (two crews)...a night gypsum and a day gypsum hauling twenty, 80-ton cars, per trip with two locomotives required.

I guess that's about all I can add for now from actual working experience. Look forward to seeing more from you.

Brian

[Paul Charland]

Hi Brian,

Thanks for your insight, sure helps piecing things together.

I've been looking for an operation to justify spending a year drawing the DAR for Microsoft Train-sim and had thought running train 24 was it until the other day when you commented on the operations. Maybe I've just been looking at the wrong train, maybe it's the mixed I should be looking at, or at least M22. I had thought the route might start as Kentville to Windsor including the two mines, if this worked the route could be continued to Halifax and Truro, and maybe even head south some day.

Please correct me if I get this wrong...

Arriving in Windsor M22 drops the coach behind the station on the track the Gypsum power spent the night. The crew does local work as required before picking up a van. Some time after Train 1 passes they run extra south, working their way to Wolfville, or maybe Port Williams before heading to Kentville (I'm asking about Port Williams only because it is listed in the '73 ETT but New Minas is not listed making me thing New Minas was in Kentville yard limits). This might be enough to become an interesting activity when you through in a meet with train 24 and probably some gypsum operations.

Thanks for the help.

Paul