Plaster train operation questions

[Chuck Conway]

Hello,
I have some questions about the operations of the plaster trains. My understanding is that they ran from Mantua, as seen in David Othen's recently posted view, to the dock at Hantsport. First, how did they load the cars at Mantua? David's picture shows the empties pulling past the loads, but I don't see a loadout. Then, how did they unload at Hantsport? Was the gypsum refined in any way before shipment? Where was the plaster bound for and how many trainloads did it take to fill a ship? Did the trains run every day or only when a ship was due to call? Is this operation still going? I know, a lot of questions, but having never been to Nova Scotia, I have no idea of how all this worked. Corrections, questions or other comments welcome. Thanks in advance for your help.

Chuck Conway

[Paul Charland]

Hi Chuck,

I'll have a go at this and then someone can come along and correct me!

There are two mines in Windsor, the one at Mantua (Fundy Gypsum Bailey Quarry) on the old Midland route, the other is at Wentworth (Fundy Gypsum Wentworth Dark Quarry).

If I'm not mistaken, the day used to start in Windsor on the track behind the station, the crew would lift about 20 loads out of one mine, take them to Hantsport and exchange them with a like number of empties, then head to the other mine in Windsor and for loading.

At Hantsport Fundy Gypsum had a 45 tonner that took up to six loads down to the dumper at a time. They would load the Gypsum (in rock form) directly into a ship or story it if necessary if a ship was not yet in port for any reason.

The road crew made three round trips a day, that means if they loaded cars at Mantua in the morning, they would also load the last trip at Mantua and then next morning they would first load at Wentworth and finish the day there... the first mine run would alternate between the two mines.

There are about four hours when the tide is high enough to float the ship and load, Fundy Gypsum loads 40,000 tons of gypsum in under three hours... said to be the fastest loading facility in the world for this sort of thing. Of course they can do this twice a day. Shipments go to the States, would appear either Jacksonville FL, or a place in Alabama, could be both. On a side note about a dozen cars are (or were) loaded at one of these mines into CN open hoppers to be sent to Ontario for use in tooth paste, in the spring usually.

The cars have two gates on the bottom of the cars, the length between the trucks. It's an air dump system that allows all the cars to be unloaded at once, as long as they have their hoses connected. Not sure which of David's shots you are looking at but there is a large long shed that cars are moved into for loading. One of the mines in Windsor had a small Fundy Gypsum switcher at one time, not sure if it's this one of not.

This operation is still going on today, they are building larger ships and going to expand the facility to increase the operations. Keep in mind that "Fundy Gypsum" is an American company, US Gypsum. The two mines in Windsor and loading facility in Hantsport are all owned by the same American company.

Hope this answers a few of your questions correctly!

Paul

[Chuck Conway]

Paul and list,

Thanks for the informative reply. I had figured the crew must have done more than one turn, but three would be a pretty good days work. I don't see the loader that you are speaking of unless it way on the other end of the siding in this picture. Or am I missing something?

:http://www.dardpi.ca/wiki/index.php?tit ... -8139a.jpg

Another question. Where in relation to the Hantsport depot was the dock and transload?

At any rate, thanks again for the great info. Take care,

Chuck Conway

[Paul Charland]

Hi Chuck,

Go to this Google Map page and you will see a string of gypsum gons in the yard and at the top the loading shed I was talking about. I suspect Davids shot was taken from the center of this page looking south. Zoom in and have a look, you can also scroll towards the top of this page and follow the covered conveyor to the mine head.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&g ... iwloc=addr

This is a PDF, open it and go to page 23 for an aerial shot of the Hantsport facilities. There is a covered car dump at the upper left of the shot with a few cars on their siding. At the top left you can see the siding curving to the right, the mainline, and the backtrack.

http://www.acresinnovations.com/spring2 ... iew-02.pdf

Paul

[stem]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yQU31kv_1g

RS-23s smoking up and down the Avon River Valley.

[downeastrailfan]

The plaster name must be from the days of plaster walls, before drywall, because I've always heard these trains referred to as gypsum trains.

As Paul mentioned, Canadian Gypsum has two mines in the Windsor area. Both are located on the Truro Spur. The mine closest to Windsor is Dimocks. It is the smaller of the two mines. I have seen one of the 45 tonners used there. Mantua (pronounced MAN-TOO-AY) is located slightly further Northeast. Back in 2002, I rode a siderod 45 tonner into the loader. The engine went in first, with the cars trailing.

The 2008 Canadian Trackside Guide lists Fundy Gypsum as having two 45 tonners and three 25 tonners. Two 25 tonners have been retired for a few years and are in their junkyard (off rail on oil pads).

Note in David Othen's 1982 photo at Mantua the loco has extra flags. In the CP era before 1990, gypsum trains ran as extra's. Flags were not needed after the new Canadian Rail Operating Rules rules were instituted in 1990.

In the CP era, a 45 tonner was used at the unloader in Hantsport. W&H had an RS-23 assigned there for awhile, and most recently, a CEMR leased GP-9. The track to the unloader has a pretty sharp curve as it leaves the mainline and crosses a street. Loaded gypsum hoppers make some of the loudest flange squeeling I've ever heard on this curve!

The gypsum cars were built by NSC in 1963, IIRC. There were originally 75 or 76, enough to make three sets. Since W&H can't maintain its tracks, they have had many wrecks and lost a number of cars. So, train lengths have decreased.

[Chuck Conway]

Hi fellows,

Thanks to everyone who as replied regarding this topic. It's been very helpful in understanding both past and current operations of these trains.

I understand that these trains are currently referred to as the Gypsum trains. When I referred to them as Plaster trains, I was just using the nomenclature that John MacIntosh had written on the slide mounts. I would imagine he called them what is contemporaries from the '40's and '50's did but don't know this for a fact.

Can we assume that they looked much the same during the steam era as they do in this 1959 view? http://75.158.59.76:8021/wiki/index.php ... R8135a.jpg It's the earliest I've seen unless I've missed something, which is very possible. Thanks again for you're help and interest. Take care.

Chuck Conway

[Paul Charland]

Hi Chuck,

Yes, these same wooden side cars were the same cars used in the steam era. If you have or can get Gary Ness' two booklets each has a photo of steam engines hauling gypsum in these cars. In volume I, DAR D-10s 1092 and 999 are seen crossing the Avon River with a loaded train heading to Hantsport in the mid-50's. In volume II DAR 2511 leads 999 with a gypsum train through Wolfville. The description states the shot has to be from the late 1930's as both engines carry name plates. Also stated the dump at Hantsport opened in 1947 and prior to that gypsum was transfered to ships at Wentworth in the summer and Deep Brook (south of Annapolis Royal) in the winter account of ice at Wentworth. The need to double head the trains caused problems crossing the bridge at Clementsport. the lead unit was cut from the train on the fly and sped across the bridge before the rest of the train crossed... interesting stuff!

Paul

[stem]

What I'd like to know is what the original facilities on the Digby gut looked like. Has anyone ever seen a photo of the Deep Brook facilities?

[stem]

Wow! Didn't mean to stump you guys like that. There hasn't been a word since that last post of mine.

I added a place on the wiki to deal with plaster trains under the Operations heading. We should now start to put photo links of gypsum train content into the appropriate <gallery> section.

See this page on the wiki:
http://dardpi.ca/wiki/index.php?title=Gypsum_Trains

Don't forget also that we already have a category for locomotives from Canadian Gypsum as well that needs some feeding:
http://dardpi.ca/wiki/index.php?title=C ... ian_Gypsum